What is Battledoming?

This is a brief overview of a somewhat popular underground hobby amongst mostly us young men on the internet- putting characters (or armies, or what have you) from your favorite fictional mediums (it could be any series on your mind pretty much) and debating which of the parties would win in a hypothetical conflict.

It's something we've probably all done at some point in our lives. We've all had talks with our friends in manners like so:

"No way! This guy would totally destroy that other guy! Look at the things he's done compared to that wimp!"

Known variously as "Battledoming" or simply "VS" by the guys that talk about it more than in simple passing, this somewhat useless, but somewhat fun hobby is practiced more strenuously by a niche on forums dedicated to it

 Battledoming is a more formalized practice of debating who would win between characters, vehicles, ships, etc. from various different series and entertainment franchises. Occasionally, the practice is used to debate a hypothetical match between parties and entities in the real world as well (think Deadliest Warrior, but on a forum, and following formalized procedures). These could be examples of your typical matchups:

- Star Wars vs Star Trek (possibly the most classic one, and is, as far as I'm aware, the matchup that started the hobby as it is currently known, when fans from both sides debated it and began to formulate the nucleus of the procedures currently in use. A good site that can attest to some of this is Stardestroyer.net)

- Goku vs Superman (overdone and now banned on many forums, but it is perhaps the most famous matchup of the last decade)

- Protoss vs Covenant

- Han China vs the Roman Empire (an example of a hypothetical real-world matchup)

Those are just some well-known examples. By its nature, Battledoming has a very wide variety of possible matches, and one good offshoot of the hobby is that you may hear of a series that you've never encountered before, and once you hear about it, you may find something that you like.

Debates are held where participants are expected to follow typical debate procedures- presenting evidence, avoiding the use of logical fallacies, and conceding when wrong. Obviously, these debates are mere passing hobbies, and are not expected to be taken as seriously as a real debate on issues of importance such as politics or science, but the bones are expected to be followed in some form or another. Insults and flaming may be common in some places, but are expected to relate back to the topic at hand in some way.

Various different forums have their own nuances and rules. Some are more liberal on flaming and insults, some less so. Some forums or places make certain assumptions not present on others, which may or may not effect the outcome.

Some well-known Battledoming forums include:

Anime Vice Battles: An up-or-down forum that has a number of respectable posters, but is also perceived as having a certain amount of trolls. It is generally seen to have declined in quality in the past couple of years.

The Battlegrounds: Part of the Viz forums. It is accused by many of being rampant with trolls and other assorted undesirables that are worse. Incompetence amongst the Viz forum's moderators is also seen by many as rampant, though a few veterans from other forums are trying to tame that.

Comic Book Resources: Probably one of the older boards on the net, and was once considered one of the premier ones. In more recent times it has been accused of declining in quality and having asinine rules such as moderators deciding who won a debate and what is usable as canon. Rules against flaming are very strict.

Comic Vine: A site that mainly debates comics and comics vs manga matches.

Mangafox Arena: A part of the overall Mangafox forums. The Battledome here is heavily criticized by many other forums for a perceived culture of trolls and stupidity. The infamous Naruto vs Living Tribunal thread was on this forum.

Moviecodec VS Forum: A part of the wider Moviecodec Lounge. The forum generally despises calculations and is known for having a guest-posting function. It is generally panned by many other forums as being a haven for trolls and having a fanboy mentality for certain series that severely clouds its posters' judgment (ex: Dragon Ball Z, Sonic, etc.). It used to be known for flaming, though has implemented rules against it in more recent times. The guest function ensures that those rules are at times difficult to enforce.

The Outskirts Battledome: A section of Naruto Forums, the community here is probably the most knowledgeable on the net and is into a wide variety of series, which helps ensure that matches stay fresh. Calculations are very important here, and flaming in various degrees is generally accepted by the community (if not the forum's moderators) if warranted. It is likely the current best and most well-known site in the Battledome community, due in part to its widely-cited wiki. It is however criticized by some for being seen as overly reliant on calculations and having a strong clique culture.

Saiyan Island Battledome: A forum that seems to be OBD-like in its debating style.

Spacebattles: A sci-fi oriented forum that is generally praised for its community's knowledge in that particular area. Calculations are done and generally favored here. It is however, often criticized for its seeming lack of knowledge or deliberate downplaying of anime/manga and comics. Rules against flaming are strict.

Stardestroyer.net: Many of the individuals here (such as Mike Wong, who started the site) are veterans and pioneers of the craft, going back to the old Star Wars vs Star Trek debates. It is generally a forum that favors calculations, and flaming is allowed in certain circumstances.

Debates

How Do They Play Out?

While not all forums are exactly the same, there is a general blueprint that is more or less universally followed. Standards of evidence and acceptability generally go as follows:

Feats: The most important thing in a cross-series debate is to analyze the feats of the respective combatants. Feats are, as the term suggests, actions performed by the party in question within his respective medium. Example: Superman flying to a far-off solar system. This is a speed feat and would suggest how fast he can move in the hypothesized cross-battle with an enemy combatant from another series. An example of a destructive feat would be the Death Star destroying Alderaan. This is known as a "planet busting" feat. A durability feat would be a party. surviving an attack on a certain par of destruction, such as someone surviving a hit by a nuclear weapon.

Feats are regarded as the most important and highest form of evidence on most forums. The reason for this is obviously that they are a usually indisputable display of power and skill from a party involved in a match.

Statements: Many fictional mediums, especially comics, manga, and novels have statements regarding the power of a certain character, weapon, technique, etc. Obviously, just as in the real world, statements vary widely in reliability, and are generally taken on a case-by-case basis in Battledome debates. Generally the gamut looks like so:

1. If a statement comes from a knowledgeable party (IE: a character in the story that generally knows what he or she is talking about, and isn't prone to boasting), and is supported in some way by feats that would hint or imply at such a level of power, the statement is usually accepted without much issue.

2. If a statement comes from a knowledgeable party, it may or may not be accepted as usable. For example, a scientist discussing the mechanics of a piece of technology is generally thought of as reliable, but if said scientist makes a statement of a certain level of power or the like without corresponding feats to support it (ex: claiming that something or someone could destroy the planet while the best destructive feats in the series have only demonstrated the destruction of a city), it is generally written off as unprovable or unreliable for the time being.

3. If a statement comes from a character that seems to be boasting, it is generally not accepted, even more so if there are no feats to support such a statement in the series (the latter example is usually termed hyperbole on most forums).

Not that there aren't numerous exceptions to these broad strokes. As mentioned before, statements are examined on a case-by-case basis in most...cases.

Powerscaling: In many mediums, certain characters or things don't have very many notable feats, but an observer knows via other feats, statements, and the contextual narrative of their respective series that the parties in question are clearly superior to other things that do have high-level feats going from them. It therefore follows that the superior party in question can replicate the said inferior character's feats.

A good example would be the immensely popular Dragon Ball/Z series that you probably knew and loved as a kid (especially if Battledoming emerges as a hobby for you). Surprisingly, many major characters are very lacking in feats. This is where powerscaling emerges.

Frieza, for example, can destroy a planet. We've seen him do this on panel. And yet, Frieza is weaksauce compared to many other characters. He would be an ant to later characters like Vegeta at the end of the series, for example, who is a character that does not have many notable feats. The logical progression of the series' narrative however, dictates that Vegeta would smack Frieza around like a ragdoll. For this reason, it is safe to project that Vegeta is clearly stronger than Frieza, more destructive, faster, and more durable. Just how much more powerful he is is an unknown quantity at this point (and will remain so until new notable feats come out to be evaluated later on in the series), and hence, he is given Frieza's stats with a "+" sign next to them.

Powerscaling tends to be for physical aspects only. Special techniques (often called "hax" or "haxes") usually can't be scaled by simple hierarchical logic alone, due to the fact that they are exotic in nature and tend specialized to a particular character, not that exceptions don't exist depending on the series of course.

Powerscaling as you can see is very contextual, but in practice it isn't hard to figure out. It differs in each series, and some series like DBZ are more prone to easy powerscaling. It can give a good idea as to the overall levels of each characters, but remember not to abuse it. Saying that "character X is many times stronger than character Y, and since character X is a planet buster character Y can thus bust stars," is an example of an abuse of powerscaling.

Non-Canon Feats: These are usually not allowed. The default assumption in most Battledome debates tends to be the use of canon events only. There are several reasons for this. The first and most obvious is that there are spin-offs and fan fictions of most things out there. For instance, the crossover between Dragon Ball and One Piece, wherein Goku had to become a Super Saiyan to fight Luffy, even though the mediums from which they originated suggests this would be an absurdity. A second reason is that there are contradictions between adaptations of things, such as the Marvel comic characters and the movie versions of the same characters. Feats suggest that the movie versions are far weaker than their comic counterparts.

Thus canon versions of events are assumed to be the default and non-canon events are disqualified, unless the creator of a match states that this isn't the case. Canon events usually mean the original series and any derivative works specifically made by the series' creator and/or rights holder that tie into the original. So for example, Marvel's canon would be the comic series that the writers have published and haven't refined with newer editions overwriting previous events. Star Wars has an official canon policy that is followed (on most forums), and Slayers has a multiverse canon wherein all continuities are canon as part of numerous parallel universes.

Author Intent: This is considered an unacceptable method of argumentation on most Battledome forums. The reason for this? "Author intent" presumes that the person arguing something knows what the author's intention really was- usually without a statement of fact by the person in question. The result is a vague interpretation. Furthermore, "author intent" may at times contradict actual things happening in the medium that are clearly and unambiguously told to the viewer. Thirdly, the author most likely never intended for his/her work to be put in a Battledome debate.

About the only thing "author intent" is good for is establishing what is canon in a respective series.

Outlier Feats: Some feats just seem wildly out of place- irreconcilably inconsistent. These are what are known as outliers, and are universally considered unacceptable across the VS Community. While this fact is agreed upon, what exactly it is that constitutes an outlier can certainly be controversial at times.

In general, an outlier can be identified as to how it balances with other feats in the series that come before, and more importantly, after it. If someone or something destroys a continent for example, and then in a later arc, while going all out and performing said arc's highest-end feat only destroys a city, the former is probably an outlier.

Calculations

What are they?

Calculations are a process by which posters on certain Battledome forums quantify feats by analyzing the given display in the medium and then attempt to quantify it. Usually this is either an energy feat- measurable in joules, or a speed feat- measurable in meters per second. These are then analyzed based on the laws of physics and their expression in mathematics.

First, there needs to be something to work with, such as a character's known height. Then there will be a process of scaling the amount of pixels in the panel, screenshot, etc. (usually in a program like Microsoft Paint) in the measuring stick and what it is to be compared to. Now that the approximate dimensions are attained, they can be used to solve an equation, such as the amount of energy it took to make a crater of the corresponding volume, found from the previously-observed dimensions. You will then have the approximate energy in joules that the character dished out to make the crater, and can presumably dish out in a battle.

Pixel scaling need not be used in all calculations. Some simpler ones with known locations or dimensions need not be scaled.

An example of a very famous calculation would be SD.net's analysis of the energy behind the Death Star's destruction of Alderaan. In this way, using the dimensions of our own humble planet, it was found that the Death Star's destruction of Alderaan sat at a yield of around 1E38 joules or around 23,500 yottatons of TNT- far more energy than is needed to destroy an Earth-sized planet. This could be discovered by the speed of the debris spread and the mass of the planet, which is transferable to kinetic energy- an expression of the energy in the system behind the Death Star's superlaser.

Obviously this presumes that the laws of physics work at least in part in fictional universes- which is something that is more or less true, though there are, as one might expect controversial sticking points at times as to how to reconcile the inevitable inconsistencies.

The take on calculations throughout the Battledoming community is, as an outside observer might expect, mixed. On forums such as SD.net, the Outskirts Battledome, Space Battles, and others, they are regarded as a useful tool to analyze feats and further refine our understanding of them so as to make debating simpler, more streamlined, and less prone to "wanking" or "downplaying."

Other forums regard them as nothing but fan fiction, wildly inconsistent, and unhelpful.

Nevertheless, the trend in recent years has been to move favorably towards calculations, as they have been demystified in many respects.

Index of Terms

Below is a list of commonly-used terms you are sure to see if you visit a place in the Battledoming community.

Anti-Hax: A power or other way to resist a hax or haxes.

BFR: Battlefield removal. This is an argument wherein a debater states that the party he or she is favoring can remove the opponent from the battlefield and render said opponent unable to return or fight back, therein winning the fight.

Blitz/Speedblitz: An argument wherein a character is so much faster than his or her opponent that he or she can just destroy the opposition without the opponent being able to defend him/herself. It is one of the most common arguments there is.

Bloodlust: A state of mind wherein a character will ignore the typical sensibilities or personality traits he or she has displayed in his/her series of origin and will destroy the opposition without mercy.

Buster/Busting: An epithet describing a the level of power of an attack or character/weapon, etc. Ex: Something that can destroy a planet is a known as a planet buster.

Calc/s: Calculations.

Canon: The canon content of a medium.

CIS: Character induced stupidity. This is a state of mind wherein the personality traits or sensibilities of a character in a match are assumed to be the same in the cross-battle as in his or her series of origin.

DC: Destructive capacity. How much a character can destroy in a single attack.

Downplay: When a poster is deliberately making a party in a debate less impressive than it really is.

FTL: Faster than light.

Game Mechanics: A way to refer to things that occur in video games during gameplay that would make no sense in the main story. Ex: Sephiroth's supernova technique being shown to destroy the solar system as a fight cinematic, yet in the story of the game, the solar system is perfectly fine.

Hax/Broken: A cheap or exotic power that is not measurable in terms of standard energy physics (IE: joules).

HST: Holy Shonen Trinity. This term came into being due to the three longest-running and most popular mangas in Shonen Jump during the 2000s- Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece (though recently Bleach has lost its spot, but is still regarded as part of the HST by convention). A very significant portion (well over 25%, and that's lowballing it severely) of Battledome threads on the internet will likely involve these three series in one way or another.

Jobbing/Jobber Aura: A certain form of PIS wherein a character is losing to an inferior opponent due to plot.

PIS: Plot induced stupidity. Circumstances that may have caused jobbing or a character not to utilize a power or ability, etc. due to plot reasons- ex: Jedi not mentally attacking opposition in Star Wars due to the ability's association with the Dark Side.

Prep/Prep Time: A party to the debate has a certain amount of time beforehand to prepare for the battle.

Respect Thread: A collection of media (scans from manga or comics, video clips, relevant text, etc.) outlining the powers, feats, and statements of a character/vehicle/etc.

Solo: The party in question is superior enough to his opposition that he/she can destroy them all without a problem. Ex: LoN solos God of War.

Tank: A character or thing taking an attack without damage- in other words, a durability feat.

Trope: A commonly-occurring scenario in fictional mediums, often used as a way to explain inconsistencies. Two examples of such tropes are speed that allows the user to disappear from the sights of enemies (called the speedblitz trope) and energy concentration (like Cell getting blown up by Goku's supposed planet-destroying Kamehameha yet no damage is visible to the environment). Tropes can work either for or against a character in a debate.

Verse: A way to refer to a series. Ex: Star Warsverse, DBZverse, etc.

Wank: When a poster is deliberately exaggerating a party in a debate, making it more impressive than it really is.

No comments:

Post a Comment